Savage et al (2017) in a review for the Swedish Medical Association identified the possibility of virtuous cycles of physician leadership, with willing leaders developing wide medical engagement. There is though, also a vicious cycle, with incidental leaders being forced or persuaded to take on roles, and finding it difficult to manage the conflicts between management, colleagues and medicine. Developing leadership interest, particularly in service improvement, in the junior doctor body will be part of the virtuous cycle, and will be support service improvement processes.