Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya gives the inaugural CEDAR and WFD Annual Democracy Lecture

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Hello good morning and welcome to you all and a huge thank you to coming to

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this inaugural event. I'm Richard Graham. I have the huge honor of chairing the

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Westminster Foundation for Democracy and I want to give a big welcome on behalf of parliament as well as WFD to today's

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Event. This is a joint event WFD and CEDAR and for those who are good

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acronyms you will all know that CEDAR is the Centre for Elections, Democracy, Accountability and Representation. Pause

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for breath at the University of Birmingham, wonderfully represented by Professor

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Nick Cheesman about whom more in a moment or two. But this is our inaugural

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lecture on the State of Democracy in the World 2023. This was an idea that I had some

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years ago and has come to fruition thanks to the hard work of many people and particularly my colleagues

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Anthony Smith and others in the WFD and what a time to launch this

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event with invasions and hideous loss of life in both Europe and the Middle East.

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I always thought that air raids and air raid shelters were part of the

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experience of my parents generation in this continent not

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ours and that came to an end that belief two weeks ago in

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Kyiv. Today in fact just one out of five people in the world live in countries

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rated as free and the levels of democracy around the world have been

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declining now for 17 years. So the backdrop to this inaugural

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lecture is sombre. We all have much to do if our

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Legacy to today today's young is to be more than well we did our best but

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please do better. So let me say a few words first about today's event, our partnership with

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the University of Birmingham and then introduce our remarkable special guest and our two other distinguished

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Speakers. The partnership with the University of Birmingham uh has been remarkable during

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its first seven years and that is now linked to CEDAR. I believe this has enabled their

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independent researchers to have access to active and pressing work to address

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the effectiveness of political systems around the world and it's given the

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WFD, the FCD and others learning and knowledge that we all need to improve

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the way that we work. So I'm really pleased that we're working in Partnership to establish this lecture

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series which could not be more relevant the decline of democracy threatens all

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our security. We know that democracy helps protect individual rights reduces

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the risk of conflict and increases the likelihood of sustainable economic

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growth and effective social policies, so we wanted to start this lecture series

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to highlight the human stories that underpin the promise of democracy and

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the struggle to defend it. We want to learn from the experiences

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of other countries and by God going to Ukraine is

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a learning experience. As we tackle this common challenge we want to bring focus to

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democracy defenders and those that put themselves at risk as our guest speaker

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has done for the sake of democracy often over overshadowed by

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autocrats and dictators and we want to hear their ideas about the challenges and

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opportunities ahead and all of this we believe should help identify the way

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forward to strengthen democracy globally. So

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today I am really honoured to introduce

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Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya as the inaugural WFD democracy Lecture.

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Sviatlana you need very little introduction as the leader of the

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Belarussian Democratic opposition movement and head of the United transitional

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cabinet of Belarus. For everybody in this room I

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suspect you were the real winner of the presidential election as many of you will know

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Sviatlana stood against Lukashenko in the 2020 presidential elections after her husband Sergey was barred from running, arrested

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and imprisoned and he remains in prison. Lukashenko has declared the winner

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of these flaw and fraudulent elections and Sviatlana was forced into exile in

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Lithuania that inspired unprecedented peaceful pro-democracy protests in

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Belarus and after the Russian invasion of Ukraine s Sviatlana announced the

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anti-war movement to prevent the participation Belarus in that invasion

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of Ukraine. She's visited 28 countries gathering support and advocating for the

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release of more than 1500 political prisoners and a peaceful transition through free and fair elections

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which was your main motivation for standing at that

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Time, so Sviatlana has direct experience of a struggle to defend democracy and has

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paid a huge personal price in her own family and we're honoured to be hearing from her

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Today. After her lecture she will then be joined in conversation here by Dame Melinda

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Simmons well known to everybody as our former Ambassador in Ukraine whose blogs

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and videos and social media brought it all alive to millions of

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people conflict and stabilization themes have run through I think Melinda’s entire

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career uh whether working in the FCD or for the National Security Secretariat at

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the cabinet office, setting up the cross government fund focused on prevention

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and resolution violent conflict and both of them will also be

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joined by Professor Nick cheesman, the Professor of Democracy at the University of Birmingham our key partner for both

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this lecture and work in General on democracy and Nick, I know that you will moderate the

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conversation um but I hope that it will be an exciting one rather than a moderate

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one and take all the audience questions and Nick who was formerly the director

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of the African studies Centre at Oxford University and the author of a great book which I read some years ago when I

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joined WFD called how to rig elections um and the object of the

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exercise was how not to rig them rather than encouraging us on how to rig them

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but he's the founding director of the CEDAR Center. So ladies and gentlemen there is

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I hope a really good um discussion and inspiration to be

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had this morning and the inspiration Starts Now by welcoming to the stage

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Sviatlana

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Tsikhanouskaya

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Dear Richard, your Excellency Dame Melinda Simmons dear guests their friends of

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Belarus I'm deeply honoured to be the first one to deliver this annual lecture

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on the state of the democracy in the world. Thanks to WFD and CEDAR for

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this opportunity. You know, I think it's a common feeling that democracy around the

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world is in danger, it is sad to realize that only 20% of the world's population live in a

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country rated as free by Freedom House. Lately democracy is not just in a

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decline it's under attack and one of the brutal attacks on

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democracy has been carried out in Belarus by Lukashenka regime for three

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years now supported by Russia. This attack led to Russia's military presence

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in Belarus, it made possible the Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine in which

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Lukashenko is Putin's accomplice you know I'm convinced that

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the West could have prevented this bloody war by reting Alia and hasha to

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what Lukashenko was doing to Belarusians in 2020 if our peaceful Revolution

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succeeded then the war would probably have never started. You know as I often say, tyranny

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is like a cancer if not dealt with properly it spills over entire region.

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This is exactly what happened in the case of Belarus, the members of the so-called

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dictators club learn from each other and support each other Lukashenko’s media as well

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as Putin's were cheering after the Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. Propaganda

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wrote that this attack was the victory of Minsk and

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Moscow tyrants are mongering hate against the Democratic World among the

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population of their countries. You know after 9/11 people in the United States

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were asking why do they hate us? They do because the existence of

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Western democracies proves to the people of the globe that another world is

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Possible. Democracy is more attractive and more effective than tyranny, it's

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more successful economically to live in democracy means to live in security,

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peace and prosperity. This this is why people from all over the world are attracted by the

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way of life or in Western Democratic societies they also want their share in

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prosperity and peace they don't look up to authoritarian countries but

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unfortunately, not all of them succeeded in building democracy at home. You know to live in democracy means

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to live in the 21st century, to live in a dictatorship means to live in the times

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of the Cold War or even in some cases in the Middle Ages. Belarusians chose democracy in 2020

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and they have never changed their mind since then, they want to live in an

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independent free modern country but not in a totalitarian

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system but they have had time staying true to their choice in a country

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controlled by a violent Kremlin backed regime.

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What does life in dictatorship mean? You know it was the British writer

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George Orwell who described it best, it is a world turned upside down a

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world where war is peace, slavery is freedom, ignorance is strength, lies are

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the truth and so on. Dictatorship is a world of faith,

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lies appeal to the human mind because they are more than plain truth, the

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bigger the lie, the more willing are people to believe it. Tyranny means not only hatred and

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fake news, tyrants also stage a fake democracy, they deprive people of their

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voices and turn them into an obedient and hardworking

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Mess. Fake democracy starts with fake elections, elections without a real

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Choice are degraded to an empty ritual such were held in the Soviet Union and

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in Belarus after Lukashenko came to power in

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1994 manipulation and ready made results kidnapping and murders of political

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Opponents, mass detentions and beating. All this happened in Lukashenka’s

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Belarus even before 2020 almost every presidential candidate other than

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Lukashenko ended up in jail. In 2020 the campaign started with

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the detention of presidential hopefuls Viktar Babaryka and Sergei Tikhanovsky my husband. False allegations were brought

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against them. I replaced my husband because I didn't want to fail him and I didn't

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want to fail the Belarus people who remained without alternative candidates. As

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housewife with two children challenged the tyrant. The authorities registered me.

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Lukashenko couldn't believe that a woman without any experience could beat him.

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Our constitution is not for women the dictator said but he was wrong me and my

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team we managed to steal the show and Belarus voted for

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us of course Lukashenko declared his victory again but no one believed. This

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time he lost his legitimacy in the eyes of Belarusian people and hundreds of

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thousands went to the streets to defend their choice. Even the terror and mass

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repressions didn't kill people's desire for

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Freedom. Dictatorship means fake justice. Belarus courts became just another

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tool for political revenge. Everyone can be sentenced to several years in prison as an extremist

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for what? Just for sharing or liking a post criticizing Lukashenko or Russia in

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social media. You are going to be arrested, beaten and then humiliated on

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the so-called confession video. On those we can see beaten and tortured people

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blaming themselves for crimes they never committed, just like in Stalin's times or

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in Orell's books. Alexi an IT specialist was

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arrested for a comment on the internet. They came for him to his office,

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handcuffed him and started beating him in the police car. They tore his ear and

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made him drink from a toilet bowl at the police station. After serving one year

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and a half in Lukashenka’s prison he managed to leave the country and it is

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just one typical example of political persecution in Belarus since 2020. More

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than 50,000 people have passed through experience of detention. You know we usually think that

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such things happen on regular basis only in Iran or North Korea, no they happen

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every single day in Europe in Belarus. Situation with Human Rights

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right in Belarus has become a catastrophe, such arrests as I have described continue every day. In August for example,

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20 people have been detained daily and there are at least 1,500

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political prisoners. The real number is much higher up to 5,000 at

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Least. People are kept in hellish conditions, many of them solitary confinement in incognito.

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I haven't heard anything about my husband for seven months already. I

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don't know even if he's alive. Several months ago they sent me text message

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saying that he was dead. At least three political prisoners

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died in prison we told Ashurak, Nikolai Kovic and Ales Pushkin. Ashurak was beaten to death

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Kovic and Pushkin were denied medical assistance. Ales Pushkin one of the best

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painters in Belarus will never finish his last painting that he was working on for years, it is painting about the

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history of Belarus Fight For Freedom. As I speak the lives of hundreds

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of political prisoners are in danger for the same reason including those of my friends like Maria Kolesnikova, Viktar Babaryka

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and others you know having texted me fake news about my husband's death.

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Lukashenka’s henchmen with were trying to break me but you know what they

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didn't and they will not break me just like they can't break the will of our

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political prisoners. take Palina Panasyuk, the

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mother of two children she renounced Belarus citizenship in protest against

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Torture. Last year she spent more than 200 days in isolation in the punishment cell,

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she was beaten and her ribs were broken, she's denied treatment and medication

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for her condition. They are literally killing her you know ,with a

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high of 5.5 ft Palina now weighs only 100 lb. Now they sentenced Palina to a new

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prison term for the third time in a row but neither torture, imprisonment nor attempt

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to put you in a mental ward have broken him. Dictatorship means fake humanism.

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Since 2020 Lukashenko has been bringing to Belarusian immigrants from the Middle

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East and Africa. He's using them to orchestrate a hybrid attack on the

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European Union. In this way he blackmails our neighbour countries Poland, Lithuania,

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and Latvia and it is an orchestrated human tragedy from which the dictator hopes to

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Benefit. Do you think he cares for refugees life? Of course not, all he cares is his

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personal power. It is a fake humanism when he

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illegally brings Ukrainian orphans from occupied territories to Belarus. There

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his propagandist brainwashed them and teach them to hate Ukraine their

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Motherland. Lukashenko acts as if he had no part in the war as if he didn't help

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to destroy this children's homes with Russia missiles launched from Belarus

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last year as if he didn't know that to displace citizens from of another state

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in this case Ukraine is a war crime dictatorship means fake

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Patriotism. The dictator brings Russian nuclear weapons to Belarus saying that

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these are for our protection. Protection from whom? It is the tool to blackmail

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the neighbours and to fix Russian control over Belarus for many, many

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years as a fake patriot Lukashenko needs only those Belarusians whom he can

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Control. Those who left the country following repressions are rendered stateless by

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his recent decision not to renew National passports for bans in

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Exile. He just wants to get rid of them and take revenge on everyone who dared

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to speak up against him. Finally dictatorship means

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propaganda and fake news in Belarus it is all anti-Western

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and anti-Ukrainian brainwashing and hate mongering. It endlessly goes on in the

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media but not only. It starts in schools already Wagner mercenaries, murderers

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that look brought to Belarus after school are invited to teach

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Belarusian pupils. In some schools Belarusian classical writers are banned

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because they wrote and fought against Russian imperialism. However even such a massive

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propaganda has its limits. The regime didn't manage to convince Belarusians to

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join Russia in the war against Ukraine it gives me hope that after so so many

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years of dictatorship people have developed resilience to lies and learned

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to look for the truth. So what does it mean to live in a

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Dictatorship? Iit means fear you are afraid to visit

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anti-government pages on the Internet or to read the media proclaimed

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extremists even when writing to a family you use encrypted messengers to avoid

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Avid potential encounters with the KB. You are afraid to keep your old

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photos in your phone they can be used as evidence that you were taking part in

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protests 3 years ago, you're afraid to speak Belarusian on the streets because

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it makes you a potential enemy of the regime. You know that if they come for

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You, you will not be out of prison for months and probably years because there is no independent Justice there is just

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no way to prove that you are innocent, presumption of guilt works instead of

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presumption of innocence. Given all this harness and

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hardships I sometimes hear that Belarus is a lost case but it's not. Let me assure you

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Belarus can be a success story. Why am I positive about it

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because I know the Belarusian people. A pensioner from Minsk called me some time

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Ago, she told me that she and her female friends gather regularly to discuss

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politics and support each other. Aren't you afraid I asked her? We simply tired

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to be afraid she told me there are too many of us, they just can't arrest

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everyone and people like this, we woman give me strength to go on on my political

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Activities. Also thinking about my husband doesn't leave me another choice than to continue my

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Fight. You know uh my son has been hearing impaired since he was born

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and I spent years to rehabilitate him. I didn't know if it would work out but I

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just was doing what I had to do and fighting for democracy is just the same.

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It can be long and challenging with no outcome guaranteed but we have to

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hold on to the dream and to be ready to give it all to

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It. Belarussians are tired of living dictatorship for almost 30 years though

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you can't see um any beautiful Ries like those three years ago the resistance

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continued and went underground it is not sleeping, it is preparing for the new

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wind of opportunity when it comes. Only last year there were at least

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375 acts of peaceful protest in Belarus. Recently Belarusian Railway

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partisans have blown up the railway track section used by Russian

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Military. As I speak thousands of Belarusian volunteers are fighting for Ukraine within the Ukrainian Armed

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Forces, so were thousands of Belarusians fighting in the Anders army during World War

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II, fighting for Britain, they were fighting for Belarus today defending Ukraine.

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Belarusians also fight for freedom of Belarus, the destinies of our countries

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are intertwined because Putin doesn't want to see no Ukraine no Belarus as independent

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Countries, he wants our countries to be colonies without democratic institutions

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and without national identity and without Belarus

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and Ukraine Putin's attempts to restore the empire are doomed to

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Fail. Dear friends I have no doubt that Ukraine will win this war and Belarus

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will be free too, however we can't win this fight alone we need strong allies

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and friends who are ready for bold steps and decisions and I do believe that such

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people are today in this room and I don't ask you to fight instead of us,

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changes in Belarus are the task of Belarusians themselves but I ask you to

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stand with Belarus in such a critical moment of history when the very existence of our country is under

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threat I wish Belarus to be among the priorities of the British Parliament

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current and future UK government. I ask you to demand from your government

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the strong and decisive steps in confronting Putin's and Lukashenka’s tyrannies Wars of condemnation are not

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enough demand immediate withdrawal of Russian troops and weapons from

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Belarus, sanction Russia for undermining Belarusian sovereignty. Current

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sanctions don't work in full because of loopholes and the UK could set an

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example of how to fight the convention of sanctions joining the International

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coalition in support of independent and sovereign Balarus. Don't allow Belarus to

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become a consolation prize for Putin. While increasing sanctions on the

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Regime, increase assistance to democratic forces, civil society, independent media,

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human rights defenders, we have resources to sustain but we need resources to

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Win. Help us to restore justice, demand the tribunal not only for Putin but also

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for Lukashenko. Arrest warrant on his uh arrest must be issued. He has a long

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record of crimes against humanity, orchestrated migration crisis and

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finally deportation of Ukrainian children. Parliamentarians can join the

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All party parliamentary group for Belarus. So let me here today pay a

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tribute to our big friends Tony, Sir Tony Lloyd the groups chairman and thank him

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for his steady support of Belarus. Also become God Parents for

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political prisoners like Boris Johnson adopted my husband

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Yesterday. You know many of political prisoners have already served their terms now they need relocation and

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rehabilitation and I rely also on your support in this

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Matter. There are exiled Belarusians in Britain, the regime recently deprived them of

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passports and we plan to start issuing our own alternative Belarus passport as

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Baltic states were doing during the Soviet occupation that will allow Belarusian to

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travel and not to lose their connection with their motherland and I hope that the UK will be among the first to endorse

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for this initiative and finally help Ukraine to

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win this war. Victory of Ukraine will be ultimate defeat of Putin and Lukashenko/

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Democratic Belarus will be a huge blow to Russian

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Imperialism. Dear friends, fighting for free Belarus is a part of the global

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struggle for democracy, the dictators unite so

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for democracies I firmly believe that the challenges that we face today will make

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us only stronger we live in a pivotal moment of the

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History. If you want to picture the future imagine a boot stamping on a

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human face forever or real road this is exactly the prophecy that we must

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prevent from coming true. Democracy itself is not a boot on

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anyone's face, we don't want to impose our way of life upon other,s we open the

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door for the people of the world welcoming them to live in the 21st

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Century. This is exactly what Belarus want and no no dictatorship, no occupation no

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terror can hold us back from fulfilling our dream to become a truly Democratic

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European country and I hope very much that with the help of one of the oldest

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European Democracies, the United Kingdom, we will prevail. Thank

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You.

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Wow, thank you ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for a wonderful speech, I see tears I see,joy I see resistance in the audience

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that was that was truly powerful and a remarkable first democracy lecture. I

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don't think anybody could possibly have done a better job and one of the things that I thought you did so terrifically

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was to actually connect what is happening to democracy in Belarus, what is happening to democracy in Russia, to what

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is happening in Ukraine and to what is happening in other countries around Europe and I think one of the things

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that CEDAR and WFD have been really trying to communicate over the last few years is exactly that that democracy is,

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not just about rights, it's also about security, it's about peace, it's about conflict, it's about economic growth and

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that broad range of issues means that we have to understand it is key to our own national security in the UK as well as

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something for the people of Belarus. Thank you so much for that inspiration I'm delighted now that we are joined um

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by Dame Melinda Simmons who as was already uh very well introduced but uh was until very

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recently of course our ambassador to Ukraine but before that has a really

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remarkable and truly impressive career uh starting off with International NGOS

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working on conflict resolution issues and then work, working in a number of different positions across DFiD and FCO

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uh including things uh like being you know the head of the diff southern Africa office in Petoria and the head

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and then director of the national uh security Secretariat so I think it's a fantastic conversation we have now

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because as well as having that Ukraine experience you actually have thematic experience of many of the key issues

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that came up in the speech. One of the things I thought we might start with is something you touched on in the speech

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and you've talked about in the past which is the role of leadership and in particular the role of women's

33:32

leadership during moments of conflict. You said in the speech that Lukashenko had almost humiliated you said that he

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would allow you to stand because you were a woman and a wouldn't woman couldn't win um and yet actually you

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prove to be the candidate who actually defeated him were it not for his mass election rigging and I know you've also

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been very interested in the role of women and the role of women in in peace building and in particular particular in

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places like Ukraine and I think one I wanted to start by asking you is you know how do you preserve that role for

34:05

women because it is so difficult in spaces that are so violent and some of the things that you've faced are not just

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the physical threats but the intimidation of your children, threats to take your children away from you and put

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them in an orphanage, you know very gendered forms of violence and yet managing to stand up against that so I

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thought maybe we could start by saying something about the role of women's leadership in particular in both

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Belarus and places like Ukraine you know such uh patriarchal

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systems as uh in in Belarus they always underestimated women and they uh

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actually Lukashenka’s uh brutal regime lost ties with uh Belarus Society with Belarus

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people and he underestimated actually all Belarusians and he lost this connection and

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couldn't guess that uh people of Belarus are much uh far away from him in their

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development so our people want to uh go to the Future and Lukashenko has always

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been dragging us back into Soviet Union, uh Soviet Union time and uh particular

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is for women you know women are usually much stronger than uh people got used to

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think about uh them especially in they said in patriarchal systems and uh there

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is Inner Strength inside women and when any woman put in front of difficulties

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obstacles where she has to show its strength she always do this and U uh I

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see that you know in 2020 and after women took a leading role uh in our

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uprising women way in front of this uh like men in Black masks you know like

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uh defin you know waving our flags and they uh became leaders in different

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initiatives and organizations and they see that women are more effective in um

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marathons on long distance you know they are because maybe they got used to

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do you know many jobs simultaneously they're bringing up children, they're working and

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you know they uh very of when uh at least you know in in post Soviet Union Congress men are not helping uh with the

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household you know so uh me women get used to difficulties now they're showing

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their strength and uh we see how our women in prisons you know they are also

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you know continuing their fight, being even behind the bars you know and of course they are humiliated constantly

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they are kept in inhuman conditions but uh you know they preserve their dignity in front of this administration

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of prison so I'm really inspired by this and women they gave me give me strength

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constantly and so I think that there will be no even discussion about the

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role of women, women in future of Belarus thank you so much I think one of

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the things that's really interesting to me is you know sometimes the power of that more inclusive approach is is not

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recognized by people the research that WFD and CEDAR have done for example shows

37:26

that increasing the representation of women in Parliament actually has concrete effects like increasing

37:32

spending on things like healthcare. There's a vast amount of research now that shows an increasing women more

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centrally in peace building operations actually leads to higher chances of success in terms of you know moving away

37:43

from peace but that can be particularly difficult in the moment of conflict in countries like Ukraine and Belarus. What

37:50

do you think we might be able to do, you know, moving forwards to actually you know pay respect to that and actually

37:55

put that at the heart of our policy? Thank you, well uh Ukraine is also patriarchal um historically just as

38:02

Belarus in fact, the region generally uh has quite patriarchal society and if I'm honest one of the first things that we

38:09

might all do is look at ourselves in the mirror because we have responded accordingly when I uh arrived in in

38:14

Ukraine in 2019 there were 78 diplomatic missions and the number of women who

38:20

headed them 13 and by the time I left 11 we don't have enough of a pipeline of

38:26

women um from the International Community who are interested in working in security in security policy and in a

38:33

part of the world that traditionally we just haven't given enough attention to and which is now forced upon us um by

38:38

the invasion of Ukraine so the first thing we could do is look at our own systems when we're thinking about what we are growing in terms of working

38:44

alongside uh countries like Belarus or countries like Ukraine and think about who we are bringing in because there is

38:50

nothing that inspires women um to get involved like seeing other women getting involved and that means we must all

38:55

create that suround sound mutually reinforcing effect and and that means we need to be investing in people um with

39:02

incentives to to bring them to to this kind of work so I think um that's the first thing the second thing I would say

39:08

particularly about Ukraine is that uh one of the most successful areas of reform that Ukraine was undertaking that

39:14

benefited women most directly was decentralization reform the much not talked about area of Reform that enabled

39:22

the participation of women properly at scale for the first time in community politics and in local and Regional

39:28

politics in a way that still was only kind of in its you know infancy at parliamentary level so uh the other way

39:35

to think about this is we look at grand um politics in the National level and

39:40

frankly not much is more important when it comes to a crisis of the type that Belarus continues to experience and that

39:47

of course is existential for Ukraine but when I look at the leaders that are emerging as a result of the Russian

39:53

invasion of Ukraine or when anyone does you look in several areas now you don't just look in national politics and you

39:58

can see a number uh of new and not just young but new people who have found

40:03

their way um to participate as a result of that decentralization that empowering

40:09

uh of the local communities so the other I think part of the conversation is looking at this at several levels and

40:15

then ensuring that that support is diversified for those levels to enable um more women to come in. Great, thanks I

40:22

was say we're going to come to the audience in a moment so please do start to get your question ready but maybe one

40:27

more question for me. Picking up on on the speech and maybe bringing in some of that uh point that you were just making

40:33

about the different levels you know one of the things as I said I think you brought out really nicely is the

40:38

interconnection between different countries and what I kind of call authoritarianism across borders right

40:44

the impact of authoritarianism in Russia is not contained to Russia because you can arrest protests against the war

40:51

because you can use disinformation that impact of authoritarianism in Russia and the lack of accountability for Putin

40:57

there generates a regime that has consequences around the world in the part of the world that I know best we're

41:03

talking about you know coups that have people in the streets waving Russian flags as they celebrate them you gave a

41:10

very powerful example of the way in which Russia and Russia's support for Lukashenko has impacted on Belarus and

41:17

therefore also threw that to Ukraine. But do you think that we in the West, the

41:22

democracies that you were appealing to at the end see this properly as the

41:27

consequences of authoritarianism? Because my sense is that actually we tend to sometimes view

41:33

these things as isolated security challenges rather than as being the inevitable consequence of a more

41:39

authoritarian world. You're absolutely right you know, uh I see that in many countries uh

41:46

crisis’s in many countries are not uh seem to be connected at all you know,

41:52

moreover uh when the war in Ukraine has started not all the people or even

41:58

politicians knew that Belarus has a common border with Ukraine for them like the

42:03

picture of the world looked like like Belarus somewhere in Australia uh Ukraine is somewhere here and they didn't know

42:10

how to connect events in Belarus and events in in in Ukraine and it was like

42:15

Awful. Okay, ordinary people but politicians you know it's it's like your your job but nevertheless we are trying

42:22

to explain that uh what starts in one country it can spell over you know the

42:29

entire region and even further you know. Dictators regimes actually they are

42:35

testing the red lines, they testing borders how far they can go until they

42:41

will get like proper reaction from democratic countries you know,

42:47

they it started in Belarus, they started to uh kidnap uh people and detain people,

42:55

torture people okay in couple of months there was reaction in the view of small sanctions

43:01

okay they hijacked airplane like okay uh some more sanctions but you know no no

43:08

Accountability, no justice, no rule of Justice, nothing then MRA crisis then uh

43:14

War started so they like see how far they can go and you know UND

43:20

decisiveness of reaction not in strong steps enough they untie hands of the

43:26

status you know they uh percept it as weakness of democracy and they it's

43:32

allow them you know to help those countries you know who uh start invasion in different region region like in

43:39

Israel for example, dictators very fast learn from each other they are uniting

43:44

against democratic countries but as they often say democracy has teeth it's very

43:50

important to show this state because you have instruments you have tools, but what

43:55

we let of maybe bravery and uh

44:01

understanding uh that dictators will not hesitate you know to test new borders,

44:07

new red lines and without strong reaction they will always like challenge and our democracy thank you very much.

44:14

And that's a point that really chimes with a a recent report WFD brought out which I think most of you have at the executive summary of on your chairs which

44:21

is about how not to engage with authoritarian states and one of the things things that report calls for is a

44:28

more strategic aggressive in a sense response from democracies to the

44:34

challenges that you you've identified do you think um we have we been a little bit slow to identify some of the risks

44:42

of this authoritarian spillover have we not strategized as well as the authoritarian regimes it strikes me that

44:49

you know in in West Africa for example we had three new military Hunters emerge very quickly and almost within months

44:56

they'd signed a Mutual Security pack to defend each other against any intervention to try and restore democracy and I think there is a fear

45:03

that those authoritarians are working quicker more decisively more effectively

45:08

than perhaps the democratic response. Do you share that or do you see a more positive kind of picture and are the

45:15

kind of suggestions you might have for how the international Democratic Community could be more effective? Moving

45:20

forwards well um I can't speak for for the issue globally but I do think that

45:26

there's a a point that might balance it a bit which is that while we might have

45:32

been slow to consider that in the case of not not just Ukraine of course but the region and other former Soviet Union

45:38

countries that Putin I think quite clearly has his eye on um that we may have been slow to understand that he

45:44

wasn't in the market for a you know a negotiated way out of invading Ukraine once he decided he was

45:50

going to do this and not just invade Ukraine but erase Ukraine and I continue to believe that that's the objective the

45:56

Russia has for Ukraine, to erase it that it's not just about territory, it's about people and about culture and about

46:02

language and about history all of this has to be gone um that it's about subjugation not just about control um

46:08

and uh and we may have been slow to understand that because I think it is quite hard to understand for you know a

46:13

culture in which we talk about trying to find ways to compromise and live together and in this there is no compromise and sadly there is no living

46:20

Together, there is only strength but I believe that we have shown that strength and actually Ukrainians for a long time

46:26

before the invasion was saying there is only one thing that Putin understands and that's strength and one of those

46:31

ways that it's interpreted as of course by military strength but that's not the only one political strength too and that

46:37

unity that uh countries were able to bring together that has continued to sustain and I absolutely accept there is

46:44

a political debate about whether it's fracturing a bit and whether it will weather the winter and whether indeed

46:49

it's going to. We the um the calls on its time that the massacre in Israel and

46:54

what may now happen in as it unfolds, what what may happen as a result of that

47:00

but still that unity is not something that Putin had reckoned with, he hadn't calculated for that either so just as we

47:05

were making our assumptions about what Putin may may have as kind of boundaries Putin definitely had his preconceptions

47:11

about what boundaries were for democratic countries and I believe that that unity um blasted that through and

47:18

it's absolutely the case that uh in terms of sort of how much pain each side can take you can see a kind of waiting

47:24

game going on. But I think the Big Challenge if you like, the huge opportunity for democracy is to ensure

47:30

that unity endures because there is nothing that dictators hate worse and

47:35

that the trade that the way in which they have traded is on that assumption of weakness that this kind of spirit of

47:40

compromise and negotiation Etc that they have understood or I think actually misunderstood about democratic countries

47:47

and so actually I think this balances itself out a bit wonderful. Thank you, well thanks also for giving us a more

47:52

positive uh takeaway there which of course is important in terms of thinking about going forward. Before we come to

47:57

the audience I thought maybe it would be nice to give you a moment so just to expand a little bit on what your ask is

48:04

from the United Kingdom. You highlighted it at the end of your speech but I thought maybe you would want to spend a

48:10

little bit longer on the kind of things that you think for example a country like the United Kingdom could do to

48:16

support Belarus. You mentioned closing the sanction loopholes but are there other kinds of actions that you would like to

48:22

See, not just the UK but other countries like the United States and so on actually you know to participate in over

48:28

the next two years that would strengthen your position you know uh when I'm asked in

48:35

the different places. tell us Sviatlana what else we can do you know to help you? I

48:41

always say do what you're already doing but do it properly because half measures

48:48

only harm when I talk about sanctions and not just words sanctions cannot work

48:53

effectively when there is such huge loop, loopholes and the trade with with banned

48:58

regime and Russia increased since the beginning of the war or since 2020 so it means that they

49:06

using you know third countries or each other and continue their trade and it's only in the arms of such powerful

49:13

countries as UK you know and other European Union to stop this. Create a special, I don't know, mechanism of

49:21

sanction enforcement, for example in the USA there is a second, there are secondary sanctions even you know when

49:28

you declare if you state that uh any organizations who will help dictators to

49:35

circumvent sanctions will be punished, it might work already but we don't we don't

49:40

hear this no it like like uh everybody close their eyes okay we impose

49:46

sanctions but how do they work nobody cares because it's on the national jurisdiction you know to uh to follow

49:52

the fulfillment of sanctions and there is always lack of capacity, lock of people and you know um regimes are

49:59

blossoming you know everything is fine you know uh the regime opens doors

50:06

Belarusian daughter Enterprises in Russia and they continue to sell Belarusian Goods who under sanctions but now they are as if they these are

50:14

already Russian products and everybody knows about this but there is no political will to change this so finish

50:22

this track you know it will be already fantastic job about assistance again to ban democratic

50:29

forces to media to uh civil society, you know. It's very difficult to fight uh

50:35

when you people are suffering in jails when you always looking for some assistance you can't work properly

50:42

because propaganda uh for example um regime gets billions of Euros for

50:48

propaganda in Belarus and we uh media in exile have to counter this propaganda

50:54

and to reach every person in Belarus how to do this. Not having enough enough uh

50:59

uh resources for this uh but sometimes see that politicians think uh with

51:06

their eyes only like we don't see Ries in in Belarus maybe everything is okay

51:12

already with your country and we are giving them evidences that people are being detained that people are somehow

51:18

even in this tyranny they're trying you know to to oppose to this regime underground facing years and years and

51:25

prison but we are trying help us help us to to to to win this fight

51:31

Accountability, three years, three years we are collecting evidences of Lukashenka’s crimes, uh it's I already

51:38

listed this crimes and till now there is no political will to uh launch

51:44

special investigation on Lukashenka’s crimes there are many excuses you know we are not part of from statues you know

51:51

all these things but look, when we have to restore justice there, impossible to do inside the country help us to show

51:58

dictators that you will not hide you know behind the walls you know, or in your residence in Balarus you have to be

52:06

brought to tribunal you, have to be brought to justice on International organizations do this or

52:14

uh also we have uh well-known organization, Red Cross in its mandate, you know to

52:21

work in uh countries where conflicts are going on, we have humanitarian disaster

52:26

in Belarus, it's invisible, it's like silent war against people we for three years we

52:32

are asking Red Cross demand access to political prisoners, they are dying, people are dying there people are being

52:39

Tortured, we have a list of people with cancer, with heart with diabetes, with heart attacks, nobody is taking care of

52:45

them in prisons, it's your mandate if you demand publicly for the world see that you are working that you

52:52

are fulfilling your mandate and make regime to to answer publicly as well maybe you are changing some letters you

52:58

know secretly but it's not job, it's you're not doing this for people, you're doing it just for you know put it on the

53:05

desk just for for tick uh so you know of course it's like

53:11

global things that governments together with parliaments can do, but on personal level when they tell ask you to become

53:18

good parent, good parents for political prisoners it's all it's also not just empty words, it's not just also fatigue

53:24

that yes I'm I I took uh one prisoner uh as God Parents, it means that you know

53:31

it's like your moral and human it's not obligation but you know,

53:39

you will try to contribute into uh this person life you know, when a person in

53:45

prison and he gets a letter from somebody from Parliament from British Parliament maybe we don't know it might

53:52

save his life, because people in prisons because of tortures they very often uh commit suicide because of un unbearable

54:00

conditions and they always like not always they attend to think that the world forgot about them that you know

54:06

people of democratic countries they are not fighting stopped fighting for them and when they get this letter or they

54:13

know from the lawyers that uh this particular parliamentarian replied to his

54:19

family and asked how how they doing maybe they need something or just words

54:24

of support sometimes is enough so it's much easier for this person in prison to survive it's it has very symbolic and

54:32

practical uh meaning so I can list you know this this requests uh and again you

54:39

talked about national identity. National features of Ukraine the same about Belarus we see how uh

54:46

Russia is trying to erase everything Belarusian from our country. there is a process of Russification from abroad,

54:53

it's not seen they're just changing the science uh root uh science from B to

54:59

Russian they um uh they uh restrict

55:04

education of Belarus uh language and Belarus literature in schools, for reading Belarus book you can be detained, so it's slowly,

55:11

it's unnoticeable, it's like creeping occupation and again you know the world

55:17

doesn't notice this, so it's it it gives opportunity for regimes, you know, to to

55:23

to continue and one day we can wake up and to see that ban language is not

55:29

official language anymore only Russian and just as I said in my speech the very

55:34

existence of our country and our nation is at stake and when you in your uh I

55:40

don't know social media uh raise the question of Belarus describe the problems that is exist in our country

55:46

more people will know about this, because you know on some events I met some British parliamentarians and they have

55:53

even known about uh crisis that we are experiencing our country, so information

56:01

is our tool as well so you it doesn't cost a lot it cost one minute five

56:06

minute of your life, but it will help a lot you know to track attention and to highlight